RE: HP Ratings and Comparisons -
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RE: HP Ratings and Comparisons - - 11/29/2005 11:17:52 AM
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RatedZ
Posts: 278
Joined: 9/23/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Lee Willis
I agree. Further, they do really dumb things: create Saturn but then dump Olds. I won't go into all of the why here, but Saturns remind me very much of Oldsmobiles back in the 70s, when Olds was the #3 selling brand in the world and could do no wrong - the products are pretty sound (I don't like them, but not everyone wants a performance car) but GM is mismanaging it badly. The whole Hummer division creates interesting vehicles but is a business disaster.
The thing about it is, is that Saturns really aren't bad cars. They're "A to B" cars, and they do it very well. My wife has a 1997 SC1, and while the interior is Kia-cheap, repair work has hardly cost us anything. It has 125,000 miles on it, and all we've done is 2 sets of brake pads, an alternator, 2 batteries, plugs/wires, oil changes, 2 sets of tires, 1 exhaust, brake cylinders and an a/c schrader valve. If you take a look, the money that we have put into the car have been for mainly wear and tear items.
What GM should've done is merge Saturn with Olds. Olds could've very easily given Saturn some styling direction, and maybe some quality direction as well. I'm not saying that Olds was a top example for quality, but it was surely above Saturn.
Don't forget, GM has been kicking around the idea of ditching Pontiac for some time now. Not cool, considering that Pontiac is the only GM brand with any type of style, which still isn't much, but the product still falls short, and misses the mark. Has anyone seen a G6 on the road? The only ones I've seen were the ones on the news after Oprah gave away. How about a Torrent? Nope, can't say I've seen one. Bonneville GXP? Eh, I've seen 2 or 3. Grand Prix GXP? Nope, I've never even seen one a on dealer lot. Is the Grand Prix a bad car? Not at all. A few years ago, I had a Grand Prix GTP as a rental car, and it was quite nice, but it wasn't a "sport sedan" like Pontiac claimed it to be.
Lastly, GM had too many branches. But why get rid of Olds? Buick should've gotten the axe, as they sell the least of GM's brands, I believe. Look at Buick's reputation! They're reknown as "the car can't go the speed limit," because their drivers are so damned old. They're known as the "old man" company. That's great that they came out with the Lucerne, and it's sort of a stylish car, but it still doesn't evoke any type of passion whatsoever. Buick wants to revamp their reputation? Hey, Buick, if you're listening, how about a rebadged GTO as a GSX, GNX, or a Grand National?
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-Dan
1994 Chevrolet B4C Camaro
2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
www.topspeedautogroup.com
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RE: HP Ratings and Comparisons - - 11/29/2005 1:22:21 PM
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Lee Willis
Posts: 533
Joined: 11/22/2005
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I have to admit it: my dad was an Oldsmobile man, bought a new one every 5 years and keep it ten years, then traded it on another new one: always had a fairly new one for my Mom and he drove the older one. I've never forgiven GM for killing it. I LIKED my father's Oldsmobile!!!!
The thing about Olds, back in the 70s and even into the 80s, was that they offered good quality, good value, and their stylists made the Olds version of a particular platform (the Delta 88 was based on the same as the Buick Century or the Pontiac Bonneville back then) look much classier than the Buick or Pontiac versions - cleaner and a bit crisper). the never LSs and particular the Sky have that same classy styling look.
I don't know if I posted it here or on another forum, but I was out in the 'vette two Sunday mornings go and just happened by the Saturn dealer when they had a pre-production Sky there with a factory transporter truck and reps to do a photo shoot for their ads next Feb. I stopped and looked and talked - not sure they really wanted me there but the 'vette always does the trick of breaking the ice and they let me look it over.
Now a Sky, or its Pontiac equivalent, the Solstice, is not my cup of tea, but the Sky was just beautiful- much classier looking that the Soltice -- it really looks like it costs several thousand more and it just "feels" like the same type of styling class that olds used in the 70s - discrete use of chrome, good balance, etc. I prefer the SKy over any other small roadster (BMW, Miata, etc).
You're right: they should have just merged Saturn and Olds.
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RE: HP Ratings and Comparisons - - 11/29/2005 3:45:54 PM
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nj85z28
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one of the only things im disagreeing with here is all this badmouthing of the Grand Prix. I personally find it a great car, and no it is by no means slow. its reliable, and with easy mods can be well over 300 horse, giving you LT1 guys a run for your money.
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RE: HP Ratings and Comparisons - - 11/29/2005 8:48:09 PM
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RatedZ
Posts: 278
Joined: 9/23/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: nj85z28
one of the only things im disagreeing with here is all this badmouthing of the Grand Prix. I personally find it a great car, and no it is by no means slow. its reliable, and with easy mods can be well over 300 horse, giving you LT1 guys a run for your money.
I'm sorry you feel like I'm badmouthing the GP, but that's not my intention. I'm simply stating my experiences with them.
I think the GP is a nice car, but just not the "sports sedan" that Pontiac claims it to be. While it does handle better than some other cars in its class, that still isn't saying a whole lot.
Not long ago I drove a GTP with the Group G package, and it definitely had some nice features, and was a quick machine, but the handling felt twitchy IMO. It felt like it was way overboosted. I found it to be nervous. Would I pay $26,000 for it (with $2,000 off sticker)? Sure. It was a nice car, but it was more of a highway cruiser than anything else.
If GM wants the GP to be a top seller in its class, it needs RWD. Give the GTP RWD, plus the 303 hp 5.3L V8, and GM will have a winner on its hands. I would definitely be interested in one of those cars if it were a RWD platform.
_____________________________
-Dan
1994 Chevrolet B4C Camaro
2005 Subaru Impreza WRX STi
www.topspeedautogroup.com
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